How The NAR Movement Almost Killed My Son- Part 4

The title is extreme.  Or is it?  You can decide...

I've waited to write this post because I wanted it to be as accurate as possible because I wanted Chaz's input.  He has been through so much and I know it was a nightmare for him.  How he made it through is by the grace of God.

If you haven't read the previous blog posts you can read them here:

Part 1- My Uneasy Experience at House Fire Ministries

Part 2- What Happened After We Left House Fire Ministries?

Part 3- How The New Apostolic Movement Affected My Son

Chaz in Guatemala 2 years prior.  Completely healthy.

The night we were at House Fire Ministries my son asked God to open his eyes as to what he may have gotten himself involved in.  He turned around and saw a huge demon hovering over the building.  When I came to check on Chaz I could tell something was wrong but later he told me what he saw.  This is when I decided I was going to do my own research.  I also prayed and asked God to open my eyes.  Did I have things in the house that didn't belong?  Did I have people in my life that are involved in some really bad stuff?  I asked God and He answered.  I began to look at preachers I was listening to online, reading on facebook, and movies I was watching.  Little did I know that I had completely become saturated in my thinking and beliefs by people in the New Apostolic Reformation Movement.  But that's gonna be saved for another post.  

Chaz paralyzed. We couldn't see but
he was pinned down by something

To my horror, I began to watch my son decline before my eyes.  He wasn't eating, wasn't sleeping, and he had horrendous panic attacks.  I was about to go on a missionary trip to Guatemala and Chaz's ticket was completely paid for.  $1,700 per person.  In fact, he was the first person I made sure was covered because he absolutely loves missions and he had gone before.  I was also taking 5 other teens and kids in my family.  I contacted Mike from The Arizona Deliverance Center and asked his opinion if I should take Chaz on the Guatemala trip and he said NO.  Chaz had opened himself up to something and whatever it was, it was tormenting him physically, mentally, and emotionally. 

After the night of the impartation by Nathan Morris at Fresh Start Church, Chaz was not only able to form a fireball of sorts in his hands, he was now hearing voices that were NOT from God.  Even more, he began to see demons. I mean, straight up terrifying demons.  They talked to him, tormented his thoughts and visually scared him very bad.  Chaz told me that he felt he was about to have a breakdown.  Hmmmm, how serious was he about this?  I could see on his face that sweet, kind Chaz wasn't kidding.  The part that breaks my heart the most is that he was sleeping alone and I had NO idea must HOW badly he was tormented.  

At this point Chaz was sleeping 2 hours a night.  The day we were packing to head to Guatemala for 8 days, we went ahead and packed Chaz's stuff.  However, while I was packing in my room in the middle of the night, I came back an hour later to talk to Chaz.  He was laying in his bed with the most terrifying look in his eyes and staring straight upwards.  I walked in and asked him what was wrong. He had very shallow breathing, his face was gaunt, and he was frozen.  He couldn't answer me and I began to panic.  Finally he whispered to me that he was being choked and if I hadn't walked in he may have died.  I believed it because his face was white and I had never seen him looking like that before.

I thought Chaz was in severe danger and I grabbed him to rush to the hospital.  Right then and there I not only canceled him going on the trip, but since I had only an hour till I had to leave for the place, I was gonna cancel my trip as well.  Chaz began to cry because he wanted to go to Guatemala SO BAD.  My husband recognized it was a severe panic attack and helped him calm down.  Chaz was seeing so many demons that it was literally traumatizing him and he began to spiral faster than we could figure out how to help.  I had figured out we had gotten involved in some bad stuff with the impartations and we all had already repented and renounced our involvement.  But Chaz wasn't being left alone.  

The day before Guatemala Chaz was excited and packed

Chaz came with us to the airport to see us off to Guatemala and we heartbreakingly left him behind.  My heart broke as my plane pulled away from my son but I knew he was in great care with his dad.  I sobbed all the way through take off as the plane took me further and further away from him.  I needed to be with my kids on the mission trip but I knew Chaz also needed me.  It hurt so bad to leave the one teen who's heart has always been for missions.  

As soon as I got to the place we were staying at in a different country I called my husband.  I called every night to get a report after spending an exhausting day outreaching, praying for people, and giving out food. When I called every night Charles told me Chaz was sleeping in the room with him and sobbing and sobbing. He basically was immovable like he was a paraplegic,  He could not care for himself at all and Charles had to spoon feed him.  At one point Charles took him to the deliverance center, they prayed for him, and Chaz did well for a few days.  In fact, he was able to walk and feed himself.  Slowly as each day went on, he was bed ridden again.

When I got back from the trip I immediately took Chaz to see his primary doctor.  She put him on Zoloft for anxiety and I was excited to at least watch him slowly come back to normal.  At least I thought.  There is just one problem.  There is a 5% chance that Zoloft can push people into phychosis.  Chaz was that small percentage.

The night before being admitted

Chaz not only was being spoon fed, he was choking on his food. I was feeding him noodles and it should have been easy for him to eat.  He couldn't even eat that.  I looked at his skinny frame and gaunt face and knew it was time to take him to the hospital.  I scooped him up since he was basically too stiff to move.  I raced him to the Phoenix Children's Hospital and had him seen by the ER.  They knew he needed to be admitted.  His weight had gone from a 55 percentile down to 2.  TWO percentile.  He was crying and grabbing his throat and was having to use a wheelchair.  I was relieved Chaz was at least going to get a feeding tube if needed.  I showed the doctors Chaz's meds which was Zoloft.  I had not figured out yet that the meds were about to take him from panic attacks to full on psychosis.  Once admitted, it went downhill even more.

The staff at Phoenix Children's said that the Zoloft isn't working so they wanted to double it.  At that point I decided to look up Zoloft and saw that Chaz had every single adverse reaction listed as a warning on their site.  I showed the doctor there and not only did he ignore me, he mentioned doubling it and added Chlonodine.  Within a couple days of being admitted, which I hoped was to get a feeding tube and at least keep him alive, he was manic.  

By now, Chaz was talking to things we couldn't see, his hallucinations were out of control.  He could feel things touching him all over his body and felt things wrapping around his legs and hips.  It would squeeze TIGHT anytime Chaz mentioned scripture.  At night Chaz would scream and scream.  He was so starving and so hungry but couldn't eat.  I begged for a feeding tube if we couldn't get him to eat.  But his psychosis became so severe that he could hardly be managed by staff.  At one point Chaz kicked me out of his room.  He was tormented in the shower, in the bathroom, in his bed, and in his sleep.  I would take care of the kids in the day at home and sit by Chaz's side at night in the hospital.  

By the time Chaz was in the hospital for a week he was so bad that he couldn't sleep and was begging for no-one to touch him.  The worst night made me sob was when he was dark in the room and his body was being squeezed so tightly that he screamed and screamed.  He couldn't even use the restroom and lost it all.  That was the night that I felt I was losing him.  The staff and everyone was at a loss and no one would listen to me that that Zoloft was making things a thousand times worse.  When Chaz finally fell asleep peacefully early morning, I was so relieved he made it.  But inside I was grieving.  

The morning he woke up at peace

The next morning Chaz woke up with the most peaceful look on his face.  He was smiling and asked if he could talk to me about something that happened.  He said he met God the night before.  God gave him a choice to go with Him or stay with family.  Chaz said it was so peaceful and he wanted to go with God.  However, he chose to stay with family and made his choice clear.  Just looking at Chaz and the peace on his face, I knew he meant every word.  The night before I was grieving because I felt that Chaz was dying.  I held Chaz's hand in relief that he was still with me.  I love him so much.  My heart hurt so bad but I always tried to stay strong and not show my sadness.  This peaceful state was only for a short time.

At one point was Chaz was manic and pacing, he stopped suddenly, walked over to me and looked into my eyes.  With a very heartfelt voice he asked me, "Mom, why do you have so much grief and sorrow?"  My eyes began to tear as I stared back into his eyes.  I gulped and willed my tears to go back and replied, "I'm okay, Chaz."  Nothing hurts worse that watching your own child suffer.

Since Chaz was 18 I was not allowed to force the doctors to take him off of the Zoloft medication.  I began to pray and ask God to let Chaz have a clear enough moment for me to sign a medical power of attorney.  The nurses assured me that if I had this, I can have him taken on the very meds that were hurting him.  By this time Chaz was completely manic and I rarely saw a clear moment.  One time as I sat next to him, he had obvious clarity.  It was the morning he woke up and said he had met God. I begged the nurse to run and get the papers for Chaz to sign and a notary.  Within 15 minutes they came and Chaz signed. I felt like falling to the floor in relief and was so grateful because from that point on, Chaz was never as clear minded as that.  

As soon as I brought the papers to the doctor he said, "It's no longer a medical thing but a mental thing. The papers mean nothing."  I was floored!  I felt defeated and lost.  My son, the boy cared for from birth and the one I fought for in every situation now was in a situation where I couldn't protect him.  Not even he had a chance to fight for himself because his brain was held captive by meds that messed with his mind and other things that were even beyond that.  

Chaz on floor in bathroom.

It's never fun to watch staff rush to your son and hold him down with a shot to put him to sleep.  This began to happen night after night as he was lost further and further into psychosis.  He was NOT the boy I brought into the hospital initially.  Each morning, around 5am I'd leave the hospital in defeat.  I'd hug him goodbye, walk tiredly to the elevator, and along the the long white hallway to the exit.  As soon as I got into my large 15 passenger van I'd weep for my son.

One day I came back to see Chaz and his bed was empty.  New white sheets, fresh towels, blankets.  No Chaz. I had no idea where Phoenix Children's had sent him and went into full blown panic in my heart.  Where was my son?  I yelled over the phone to the nurse and she said he had been escorted BY POLICE to a phychiatric facility somewhere in Arizona.  I waited impatiently by my phone to find out where.  I didn't care what time it was, where it was, or if they'd let me in to see him.  I'd do anything to be as close to him as I could get.

How did we get from a bible study, to an impartation, to seeing and hearing demons, to seeking out meds for anxiety, to full blown psychosis, and now a police escort away from a hospital?  This was a nightmare I wish I had never gotten myself or my family into. 

I had located where they placed Chaz and frantically got in my van in the middle of the night and started driving....

How the New Apostolic Reformation Movement Affected My Son -Part 3

If you haven't read my first two blogs on this subject to get caught up here are the links. Part 1 and Part 2.

I don't even know where to start.  I've shed many, many tears over what happened to my son.  I can't 100% blame the NAR movement on my son but a GOOD 90% I can.  Is the title exaggerated?  It it putting full blame on them?  Here is the first part to Chaz's story.

When we first went to the House Fire Ministries bible study what really made it stand out was the prophesies.  I mean, anyone you invited would get a prophesy, it didn't matter if you brought 10 people.  Most of everyone would walk out with one.  Well, that's neat because in my 40 year lifetime I had maybe received 5.  One of them saved my life because it was a warning.  But I could get 5 within one night.  That was pretty cool.  I can't judge whether or not those prophesies were from God but the story continues.  Chaz also got prophesies that night about what a tender heart for God he has and that he is gonna travel the world.  How God is really gonna use him.  Both of our words went on for quite awhile and we left super excited about what God was gonna do.

Chaz's Word

When we went home I couldn't wait to tell my husband everything Chaz and I were told.  In my prophesy I was told God is going to use our whole family for ministry.  Well, cool.  I've always wanted that.  I do foster care.  I have 9 kids of my own and we are about to adopt 4.   My dream has always been to help children somehow. God could use our whole family?  Yes!  Even better.  I loved my current church and this felt like my life was gonna go from a crawling pace to running.  It got me excited.

A week later my husband went while I was at work and took the rest of the kids.  Everyone got a word again.  But you know, there were "some" accurate words of knowledge and some were iffy. My husband left really encouraged and we decided that we were going to go regularly.  I asked my job if I could get Friday nights off and to my surprise they approved it!  Since we had such a large family we would alternate who went till eventually we decided to go all together.  I did notice that all the kids there made Sumi very nervous and I don't blame her because the kids almost outnumbered the adults.

Prophetic Uno by Bethal Church

I invited my best friends to come and they brought their kids.  They all got words too!  This was turning into a regular thing.  Long praise and worship, short bible study series, and then long prayer service.  It would easily go 3 hours.  Sometimes even 4 hours.  As the bible study grew, my kids started to play roles in helping out. Chaz helped with prayer but what they didn't know is Chaz had already been a teen that gave words of knowledge.  He had always been very sensitive and a heart after Christ.  Chaz would always pray for people and was on the prayer team at church.  He was a prayer warrior!  Unfortunately, Chaz is also a teen with high functioning autism and can be a bit gullible.  One time I mentioned to Sumi that I loved how Chaz would be able to pray for others like that and Sumi said, "yes, because we activated his gift."  What?  I stopped for a second because I had never heard that phrase before.  I didn't feel like Chaz had anything "activated" because he already gave words of knowledge before and was such an encourager.  In fact, being in this movement taught me a whole new terminology like "birthing, activating, impartation, equipping, ect."

"activating your faith"

After Chaz was prayed for that night I noticed he started getting confused.  Before, he didn't give words left and right.  He would pray for people that were on his heart and sometimes would understand what they're going through because God showed him, but it wasn't allllll the time. After being prayed for at the bible study I noticed the confusion he started to experience and was even giving inaccurate words people.  He started to hear other voices that weren't there before.  My sweet Chaz would get embarrassed because he would say something completely off.  We shrugged it off because Tony would tell him that God was just "fine tuning" his gifting.  

In February Tony and Sumi told us about one of their favorite preachers.  His name was Nathan Morris and he was having a revival at Fresh Start Church.  We trusted our bible study leaders so we went.  Sumi even told us that we needed to come early because people will RUSH, even run to their seats to be up front.  I though that was odd but just figured people were so excited to hear from God.  I was pretty sure I could hear from God anywhere in the sanctuary so we settled for the middle-back. The song service rocked pretty loud and people were dancing and jumping everywhere.  I had never seen anything like it.  

We sat down to listen to Nathan Morris and to our surprise it was Lydia S Marrow.  I had grew up knowing what the bible says about women preaching but Sumi assured me that night that the bible doesn't mean it literally, that women should preach.  So I sat down and listened to all her funny stories and thoughts on life.  I didn't really get much out of it. We figured we'd come back the next night to hear Nathan Morris. 

The next night and I believe the night after we went to hear Nathan Morris.  He told many stories about being saved out of the Brownsville Revival back in the 90's.  UH OH.  My stomach dropped.  I very much know what that revival was all about and it wasn't good at all.  But hey, I kept listening but that was a red flag.  He told many stories about himself and all the amazing things God is doing.  On the last night Sumi said he was gonna do an impartation line and everyone in the church, including the kids in nursery, was gonna go through it. What the heck was that?  I had no idea.  I just trusted Tony and Sumi and went through it.  A looooooong line was formed and people were eager.  In fact, the only way I can describe it is by showing you myself. This is the exact night and we went through this line.....Okay, while going to get this video, just watching it for a few seconds to get it ready to show you, I had the worst feeling in my body.  I began to slightly shake watching it.  But I want you to see. This is his entire sermon that night but if you want to see what an impartation is start at 1:20:20. He doesn't really pray, he just lays hands on people and they fall.  He blew a very small amount on my husband yet my husband felt strong wind go up his nose and down his throat.  He had his eyes closed so he thought it was done on purpose.  I had to tell him he just did a tiny breath on him so that was something else he felt.  

Start at 1:20:20 to see impartations

This is the night things went from strange to worse for my 18 year old son Chaz.  As we were on our way home Chaz exclaimed loudly that he could FORM A FIREBALL in his hands.  I looked at him strangely and thought that was odd until I heard Kaylene and him talking, Chaz showing her his trick, and her exclaiming that she felt it.  She was freaking out and excited.  Hmmmm, I had never heard of this before and it sound pretty cool.  He could do this on demand.  How come Chaz can do all the cool stuff?  He did this alllll the way home and could hardly sleep.  Now Chaz could touch people and they felt things but it's hard to explain.  

(I'm actually having a very hard time writing right now after briefly watching that Nathan Morris video.  I became shaky and foggy.)

It was now March and we had started the opening for House Fire Ministries.  The grand opening started out with Dennis Reanier for two services.  After he preached he gave prophesy after prophesy and also prayed over Chaz.  Immediately after this opening everything fell flat.  Once the bible study (that they now called a church) was in a building, it felt flat.  Almost void of anything.  We went through the motions but I noticed my family was all of a sudden going through some strange battles and Chaz was having strange "abilities."  I came to Sumi with concerns over new battles we were up against and she said not to worry, the devil was just mad.  Well, yeah. That's true, I figured so I went on for another week or so.  However, on the Friday before the last one we attended I finally sat in one of the services and I just felt odd in the service, it was hard to understand the message.  It didn't feel in depth at all and I was noticing a lot of sermons were about experience and what God was gonna do.  I noticed later on my son had walked out and so I followed.  I went outside and Chaz was sitting in the front silently with a strange look on his face.  He did not look okay. I asked him if he was okay and he very hesitantly said, "........yes."  I wouldn't find out till later what actually happened.

He said he had walked out of the church because it didn't feel right at all and he went outside to get some fresh air. He asked God to show him things the way they really were.  To open his eyes.  He turned around to face the building and he saw a huge demon hovering over the top.  It completely and utterly SHOCKED him to the core.  Later I found out this traumatized him and it was only the beginning of what was to come......

What Happened After We Left House Fire Ministries? Part 2

If you haven't read my first post about how we fell into a false movement, here it is.  My Uneasy Experience at House Fire Ministries

House Fire Facebook Page

After we decided to walk away from House Fire Ministries there was definitely a sadness in our home.  We were so excited to help start something new.  I was disappointed in myself for not first talking to my pastor to get some insight and cautions, but mostly the fact that I didn't PRAY FIRST.  I had even felt a check in my heart about going and that they were rushing things but I ignored it.

You see, everything about the New Apostolic Reformation Movement makes a normal biblical church boring.  You don't see "signs and wonders" all over the place.  That's the thing about the movement, you constantly get bored and need to see something new otherwise maybe God isn't moving.  My hunger for Jesus turned into my hunger for signs and wonders and prophesies given personally to me.  

One thing I learned the hard way, you don't have to accept any prophesy given and to test it to the Word of God.  Satan knows personal things about us too and often what can reel us in is that they are able to say personal things about our life which is called a word of knowledge.  I'm not saying anything I was told in the beginning was bad.  Honestly, I thought the beginning of our experience when House Fire Ministries was a bible study was GREAT.  It was warm, welcoming, ect.  I don't know if it started out great and later changes creeped in, or if I was deceived to begin with.  God is the judge on that.  I DO know that once the bible study was moved to a building, I began to receive and hear false prophesies that DID NOT match up to scripture.  In fact, it fed to my ego and pride.  At first I fell hook, line, and sinker but once God opened my eyes I realized that it was a tactic of Satan and it was like bait in front of me.  

I remember the day my eyes were opened and that Friday night was coming where I had to be at House Fire Ministries.  I was to watch kiddos there because I was in charge of the kids ministry.  And man, I had an amazing setup that I spent lots of money on and many, many hours of planning.  I was dreading going but still kind of testing the water.  I knew I needed to leave but it was going to be a test to see if I still felt checked in my heart.  This was after my son saw a demon hovering over the building and another lady saying she felt a demon crawling about in the service.  I DEFINITELY felt different when I showed up that Friday night. My heart was CHECKED big time.  I couldn't ignore it.  In fact, I ordered all my kids and teens to stay with me in the kids area except for Ryan because he did set up and tear down.  By the time service was done I cleaned the kids area one last time, looked around, and knew that was my last time.  I couldn't get out of there fast enough and grabbed my kids to leave quickly.  It's hard to explain.  I just knew this was not where God wanted me.  

Two days later we were back at our Sunday church and I remember when I walked in how CLEAN it felt.  I noticed how many scriptures my pastor put in his messages, his sermon made sense and matched up to scripture, the songs felt clean, there was order.  I felt SAFE.  I knew I was right back to where God wanted us. Where we had been growing for the last 6 years. (This is the church House Fires says isn't on fire for God.)

My husband called the House Fire Ministries leader to talk to the husband but eventually the wife got on the line and wanted to weigh in.  When talking to Tony it was sensible and calm but things turned way more stressful when Sumi got on the line.  It went from just discussing things to a more heated conversation.  We noticed words being used like, "touch not God's anointed," and other phrases to try and convince us we had no right to question their headship.  This is worrisome because it's always a bad sign in cults when you can't question anything.  Especially if what they believe can't be backed up by scripture or scripture that is used is way out of context.  

All of our kids and teens were relieved to be staying at our home church.  So was I.  But we had one son who wanted to stay at House Fire Ministries and it's MAINLY because he felt so needed and he loves to be needed.  He's very, very dedicated and didn't want to leave them hanging.  I allowed him to go a couple more times to show them how to set up and tear down and also told him that when he's 18 he can decide what he wants. That gave me 4 months to hope and pray he would see what we were seeing clearly.  4 months for him to be out of the fog of deception and see things from the outside.  He had fully planned on attending right up till his birthday and thank goodness, last minute he saw clearly.  Praise God!

Because we left we had lost our friendships there, which is so sad because we were growing close.  The few people we were friends with there were polite after we left and gracious (except the leaders) but some of their posts on facebook and constant prophesies were hard to stomach so I eventually had to unfollow.  I knew it wasn't right and I didn't want to fall back into it. Also, if you really pay attention you'll notice false prophets want constant attention and post a lot about all the trials they are going through because of their special relationship with God.  Oftentimes it'll make others wonder why God won't do the same for them.  I know I felt less than as a Christian because I didn't "have words dropped in my spirit" several times a day.  I prayed, read my bible, wrote journals to Jesus, but never came close to hearing constant prophesies in my head and when I was in the movement, people could drop prophesies left and right. Like it was common and easy.  I felt like the odd person out because I couldn't do that.

Apparently, there are prophesy schools that are pumping out prophets. They are releasing these newly made prophets out into churches and it's spreading.  The NAR movement even has their own language and you can buy a book to learn how to talk and give prophesies with these particular words.  Here is a piece taken on from the link warning about this book:

When I discovered this book, I had two main thoughts. First, I was pleased to find a resource to explain the vast array of NAR terms–terms that can be baffling to people who are not closely acquainted with NAR teachings. Second, I recalled a wise caution I had read by a seminary professor named Andrew Jackson. The caution was about the dangers of Christian movements using “insider language” and was printed in an article Jackson wrote, titled “Forerunner Eschatology,” which critiques the end-time teachings of Mike Bickle, founder of the International House of Prayer in Kansas City, Missouri (an NARorganization). Jackson wrote:

“A cautionary red light should go on whenever we discover any church or Christian movement creating, and extensively using, their own exclusive language. The habitual use of insider language by a Christian movement can develop a we-are-different culture vis-a-vis the greater church. Soon a person’s use of prescribed terms and phrases is the way to determine whether they are true ‘insiders.’ It can also easily create a ‘us’ and ‘them’ attitude within the Body of Christ. Many Christians living within such a cloistered culture can often find it difficult to leave or relate with other Christians, who do not speak ‘their language,’ and who are frequently seen as spiritually lukewarm or compromising.”

Jackson’s words should be heeded by those who have found themselves associating with NAR churches. The very fact that an entire dictionary of “apostolic and prophetic” terms had to be created indicates just how widespread the use of “insider language” is in the NAR movement. The NAR practice of using insider language has caused significant and painful division in the body of the Christ.

— Holly Pivec

House Fire Ministries doesn't believe they are part of the NAR movement and I haven't really put that label on them.  But they do invite NAR preachers that clearly say they are a part of the movement right on their web pages.  They use a lot of the same lingo and follow some of the same patterns as Bethal church in Redding, California and Nathan Morris.  (Also, Heidi Baker)

In a separate post I will talk about what my son Chaz went through as a result of getting involved in this, the impartations, and what came as a result.  We are still battling it and he is going through deliverance.  This stuff is serious, guys, and maybe for some they are deceived but don't have anything happen.  For Chaz, it almost took his LIFE.

Beware, friends.  Even if it feels new and exciting, match everything up to scripture.  

My Uneasy Experience at House Fire Ministries- Part 1

I think it's time to tell a story and it may be a long one.  However, if I stay silent then I know there is a chance that others could fall into the same trap.

Late last year a friend invited us to her bible study at her house.  I didn't have work so I figured I'd give it a chance.  I brought my son Chaz along with me because he loves bible studies.  It was a 45 minute drive from our house.  When we got there they were very welcoming and it was a nice environment.  Mostly my friend would do the study or her and her husband would take turns.  We spent a long time in worship which was nice.  It did drag out for a bit and it tended to be the same songs often.  It was still pretty relaxing.

Usually Sumi was the one to do the bible studies and every now and then her husband would do one. I thought they were insightful and I was often tired when I went and didn't really test what they were saying to scripture.  in fact, I had spent most my life just trusting what people told me and wouldn't read things in context.  I did notice that they put a lot of emphasis on hearing from God and what God told them to say. It automatically made me tune into Sumi more because, how cool is that?  Hearing God's direct voice or having a "word or phrase dropped in",  as she would often say.

After the long praise and worship, short bible study, the majority of the time was spent on prayer afterward and giving everyone a word from God.  If you were new you were sure to get one. Often, they would call one of us to the middle and wait for God to speak to them directly about us.  Almost like a Psychic would, in a sense.  I don't at all want to say any of it was false.  In fact, some things were right on the money.  That's what immediately drew me in to future meetings.  It wasn't the songs and not the teaching.  I only half paid attention.  It was the personal experience at the end, which oftentimes drug out very, very, very long.

I very quickly brought the rest of my family and they liked it.  In fact, I think it really bolstered our faith and how much God listens to us.  Sumi and Tony were very welcoming and I truly began to build a friendship with them.  I loved how they really believed in our teens.  As the months went on we started inviting our friends and they came.  We didn't really see much out of the ordinary.  I really loved the bible study atmosphere as we already had a church we loved for the last 6 years.

A few months goes by and Sumi tells us her and her husband are praying for a bigger building.  I thought, well, awesome.  A bigger building for a bible study.  Sounds great.  One day that day came.  It wasn't anything secured for the future but one of those things where they can borrow a building once a week on Friday nights.  I thought it was cool and looked forward to help grow this bible study.

This is where things changed fast.  

One day Tony and Sumi sit us down and tell us they'd like us to help build their new church.  This wasn't going to be a bible study anymore.  It was going to be their church.  The only problem with it is it was a borrowed building and..... eventually it'd switch to Sundays.  Gulp.  I don't know.  With the excitement of helping to start something new, without any prayer at all our family said yes.  We met them at a McDonalds and all decided our roles. I loved being a photographer and loved taking photos and making videos from them. Finally, for once, I wasn't only thought of to watch kids in nursery. That's pretty much all I did since I was 20 years old.  I was excited to catch a break.  I was already watching children some Sundays in my current church.  During the meeting Sumi and Tony asked me to be the children's director and someone else was gonna take the photographer position.  Okay, I wanted to be a servant and so maybe it was meant for me to always serve with kids.  I tried to swallow my sadness and just go with it.  After all, if this is of God, maybe I just need to follow and fulfill that position without complaint.  And I did.  In reality, we're servants of Christ, I didn't want to be selfish.

My family and I were excited to start a new adventure and we knew within a few months we'd be leaving our church of 6 years. We LOVED our church and they've really invested so much into our kids.  We give a lot of credit to them for helping our kids through some really difficult times spiritually.  We dreadfully told a couple of members including our pastor that we'd eventually be leaving. I just tried to push it into the back of my mind along with the guilt that I hadn't talked with my pastor first.  I DON'T believe we have to get permission from a pastor to do anything.  He's there as a shepherd of the flock.  Not a lord over the flock.  But I know they have seen a lot and wisdom comes along with it.  For some reason I had a feeling deep down that we were being very unwise and rushing into decisions without first giving lot of prayer.

Note: The pictures on the mobile version of my blog are blurry but you can click on them to see more clear.

Towards the end of the bible studies Tony and Sumi invited us to attend a revival with Nathan Morris at Fresh Start Church in Peoria.  It was very strange and definitely for a later post with lots of scripture and explaining.  The songs were rocking and very much like a very loud concert.  It was actually very much to my liking, if I were at a concert.  After the sermon, which I didn't really learn anything, just mostly heard about his experiences, Nathan Morris did an impartation.  I had NEVER heard of this but Sumi said it was awesome.  Gullibly, I got in the very long line and went through it to have Nathan Morris "impart" his spirit or God's spirit onto me.  Not sure exactly what he was trying to do.  He didn't say anything.  He just laid his hands on people or blew on them and they all fell down.  95% of the people fell.  Not me, thank goodness.  But I felt a little heart flip, that's it.  No one in my family fell except for two.  We are a large family so thank goodness we were the 5% that didn't fall.

After we left my son Chaz was in the van and started exclaiming that he could form a fireball in his hands.  He would actually feel it and touch people with it. My daughter felt it and freaked out excitedly.  We were amazed at this new ability he had without even questioning.  My son Chaz has a very tender heart for God and could oftentimes speak into people's lives.  We thought it was pretty neat and went 3 times.  The whole revival weekend.  

Nathan Morris will hold people and push on the "bad area" that needed healing

I have to admit that after experience a room full of people at House Fires who could supposedly prophesy and read people, and now this impartation, my church was feeling a tad boring to me.  My whole family felt that way actually.  As time went on Chaz was beginning to feel things.

Impartation Revivals are spreading

By now the bible study was now moving into the building that was being borrowed from another business.  We began to show up with things here and there and offer our help.  We were getting closer and closer to the deadline of the grand opening.  I am an observer and listen to people carefully.  One thing that really stood out to my husband and I was the complaining about the building and nursery not being built fast enough. I thought that was a bit odd being they were there rent free, in fact, the owner paid their fees to incorporate their name House Fire Ministries.  I was happy to just be there and excited for what God was going to do in this new found church on Fridays.

I was getting a bit nervous about the nursery because although they were getting donations coming in, I didn't have what I needed for the nursery.  I had to care for infant through 12 years old.  That's a wide range of kids with nothing to do and their services went LONG.  We had to use a large room that was very hot and had a huge echo.  Although I heard more complaints from others, again I didn't care because it was a free facility.  Because the deadline was getting so close I began to buy things I needed.  I had been doing nursery for 20 years and knew exactly what was needed.  Thankfully, while I was buying stuff, people started to donate.  When Sumi asked what I needed, often she would look surprised when I gave her the list.  Which is okay, she probably had a TON of stuff on her plate.  I knew that I wasn't there just to babysit and needed to actually teach a lesson.  Because the date was getting closer and closer I ended up just spending $700 of my own money to make sure we could have lessons and plenty of stuff to do for all ages.  Sumi at one time suggested that I pretty much needed snacks and they'd be good.  Hahahahahahahaha....no way.  Thankfully, she eventually bought a changing table and a rug.  I brought the fun.

Thankfully, because I have so many teens I knew I would implement their help because I don't automatically trust just anyone to watch people's kids.  Including mine.  The church eventually had it's grand opening and I had hoped people enjoyed it because I knew I wouldn't be seeing a service for a very long time.  We had a guest speaker Dennis Reanier.  It was for 2 nights.  The first couple nights for me was as disaster.  The room had such a bad echo the kids couldn't hear their lessons and a lot of the new kids were very naughty.  That's okay. But I was exhausted after day one.  I had to do another.  By the second one I was a tad discouraged.  I wondered if I'd eventually get a break after so many Fridays.  Sumi soon texted me a number of a lady that wanted to do nursery.  I texted back, that's great!  I asked how long she's known her.  "What do you mean?  I just met her tonight." Um, no.  I'm not gonna have her watch all these kids when we know nothing about her.  I saved the number for a future date and got a few more like that.  I figured I'd watch them over time, build a casual friendship, and see if I would trust them a bit.  After all, parents are looking to me to protect their kids.  

I didn't feel this way when the church was a bible study in San tan valley, but once it became a "church" in Tempe, I began to feel an unrest in my spirit. I didn't feel the same excitement, the same gratefulness, and I didn't feel His presence.  In fact, it fell flat every Friday.  I would even watch people walk out, shake their heads, and say, "I thought I was gonna hear from God."  I don't know why or what changed once it moved buildings but I had my thoughts on it.  Sometimes we get so excited to be used by God we jump the gun and move ahead of Him.  Just because an offer comes doesn't mean it's God's will.  I also began to notice subtle character issues.  Because the owner had to put the expensive lounge chairs up, at the end of the night we had to put them back down for him.  One night as we were helping to clean up Sumi said, "I don't think we should have to put these chairs down.  I mean, Jeremy doesn't put them up for us for our services." I stared at her blankly and got quiet, wondering if I heard that right. Of course we should put them back down.  Jeremy was letting us use the place for free.  As a gift. We should do everything in our power to put everything back the way it was.  in fact, I made sure to clean my nursery area and sanitize everything every time.  Jeremy needed that area for his client's kids to play.

One Friday (beginning of April 2019) I was just really feeling something was off in the building and walked outside.  To my surprise Chaz was in the parking lot.  He was feeling the same way so he left.  But he had a strange look on his face and I made a note to ask him later what happened.  Chaz told me that he also felt in his spirit that something was off so he went outside.  He asked God to open his eyes to see what he had gotten involved in.  He turned to look at the building and saw a huge demon hovering over the building.  It shocked him to the core and he was full of fear.  This was the look I saw.  I thought Chaz was okay but this is when his horror began. In fact, a friend who also attends (and still does) said she felt some things off too in the service that night. 

Once Chaz went home he was now seeing demons in his room and could explain them in detail.  Not only that, he began to hear voices.  Instead of only hearing from God like he used to, he was now hearing other stuff that was completely off and he began to get very confused.  In fact, that confusion didn't began till we began the bible study and he was prayed for.  The seeing demons was completely new.  I asked God to show me what we opened ourselves up to and HE DID.  It was like the blinders came off and it explained everything. A lot of the preachers that were invited as guest were a part of the new Apostolic Reformation movement. I began to do some major digging.  Sumi told me she once was a part of a church which I noticed offers prophesy schools. Okay, so I dug some more.  What are prophesy schools? People think that prophets can be cranked out just like that? What?  Do prophets still exists?  Yes but......According to some churches, anyone can be a prophet, and at the end of their training, they can have impartations done from leaders above them.

My fear regarding this current hunger for phenomena is summed up by the apostle Paul’s words found in 2 Corinthians 11.3: “I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.”

Gifts for Sale!

I noticed Sumi using a lot of words like "activate, birthing" that are a classic NAR (New Apostolic Reformation) type of talking.  When I told Sumi that Chaz was really starting to step out she said yes, because we activated his ministry when we prayed for him.  Not really. Chaz had always been able to speak to people to the heart with knowledge from God.  Not until the bible study did he start to seem confused.  Especially since the Nathan Morris impartation.  The more I studied I began to notice how many women at the church were able to prophesy and would sometimes say really odd things, almost like they'd get their own thoughts confused with thoughts from God.  I did some study work and read that this is a common practice in prophesy schools.  Our thoughts are often God thoughts and they'd teach how to tune in.  I mean, it can be cool, but a school that cranks out prophets?  It seems a tad odd.

Click on pic to see what NAR Bethal Church offers. New Age practices

I also began to notice people saying strange things like how they saw angels in the church.  In fact, Sumi said that someone prophesied to her that God was going to use House Fire to usher in the bride of Christ.  What?  That doesn't make any sense since all Christians are the bride of Christ.  I'll let you read for yourself.  Which, by the way, seeing angels is also a common thing in NAR churches.  There are lots of emphasis on signs and wonders, self promotion, and less and less on Jesus.  I began to see this and felt SO CHECKED in my spirit that I decided to take a break.  I was hurt and confused.  Why was our family really starting to struggle mentally, physically, spiritually?  I was told it was because we were up against a big enemy.  Or were we?  This is why I needed a break and informed Tony and Sumi I needed a short break to clear my head.  I didn't care that I was walking away from the children's ministry.  That's great I had my own ministry and all, but my family comes first.  

Here is the prophesy a man gave that really sent me red flags I needed to get out:

"Hi Sumi! What I saw was angels appear on each side of the church as I was facing the stage we were all praying in the spirit in speech and song. There was thread coming from the Throneroom and the angels pulled on the thread and began creating a bridal train. It kept coming and coming from the throne I heard the Lord say "NEVER ENDING BRIDAL TRAIN." (the bride is eternal) it was beautiful they kept pulling and pulling. Then I saw a bride in the middle isle she was like 20 ft tall she stood strong and ready. The Lord began to show me her veil, it was adorned with diamonds, ruby, sapphire, even pearls. There was gold thread intertwined into the lace and the veil was split down the middle I saw both her eyes looking forward directly at the Lord. He said to me "MY BRIDE CAN SEE ME" Because the veil has been torn. He said to me "I THE LORD WAS TORN SO MY BRIDE COULD SEE ME" the Lord continued to say "MY BRIDE IS HERE! HERE IN THIS PLACE." What I knew was God was preparing the body of Christ Here in this place to be the spotless bride. The bride who is mature and ready. I KNEW HE HAS ANOINTED HOUSE FIRE MINISTRIES TO BE THE PLATFORM FOR THIS God bless you all. Holy Spirit is all over me right now again as I wrote this out. Double portion I say. In the love of Christ, Alistair"


Very quickly I got a bad feeling from Tony and Sumi and decided to just talk to them in person.  My son Ryan was still going.  By the time I had decided to talk to them I had done hours upon hours upon hours, and days of study work.  I was SURE that I had walked into something that was not of God.  But what happened at the bible study?  Was that bad too?  To this day I have no idea.  I felt so different when it was there.  I don't know if it's just that they were so eager to have their own church they rushed into things, invited NAR preachers unknowingly, or if I was just blind from the beginning.  To be honest, that is between them and God.

What I'd see whenever I asked questions

I do know that the night I went to pick up my son and decided to take that chance to talk to them, it did not go well.  They were instantly fired up and very, very defensive.  They couldn't bring any bible scriptures to mind except for two that was wildly misquoted.  One was "Touch not God's anointed" and the other was way, way out of context.  So we were never going to be allowed to question anything?  Uh oh, what had I gotten involved in?  Sumi considered herself a pastor and we weren't allowed to ask questions or disagree.  That sent a red flag.  Sumi also said I had been talking trash.  Um, who?  I had 2 close friends I went to for help because I was confused.  I certainly hadn't spread anything because I had planned on going back up until that day!  The animosity was so obvious and I haven't even left yet.  They couldn't give me any scriptures for some of their beliefs that weren't biblical and the little bit that Tony gave me was confusing.  Like the sermons, he'd go in circles around you and you'd leave feeling confused.  After this adventure I have become a firm believer that pastors should hold some form of pastoral degree.  I was tired of hearing scriptures misquoted and taken out of context in order to be used for just anything.  I cannot trust my family in the care of a man (or woman) that doesn't understand the importance of keeping scriptures in context.  Especially if you're only able to quote bits and pieces for personal gain. 

Ryan at bible study before the building

I had planned on allowing Ryan to keep going but because I was treated so poorly in the parking lot for just needing a break, I quickly let Ryan know he will not be allowed to go till he is 18. He was used heavily for set up and tear down.  He ran a lot of things there.  He felt SO BAD walking away from them.  He loved feeling needed and I knew that's what Ryan loved the most, along with his relationship with them.  Ryan keeps his promises and he's dedicated.  It killed him to leave Tony hanging.  Time went on and Ryan began to notice they stopped writing him or asking how he's doing.  When I asked if he was gonna go back when he's 18, he said probably not for that reason.  Was he loved for the work he gave?  Also, he saw that just because I didn't want to attend there, I was pretty much dropped as a friend.  I wouldn't say shunned because they stayed my facebook friend, but it was like I didn't matter anymore.  I had heard the same from others.  Do we love people only if they agree with us?  Can't Christians disagree and still be friends?  Or are we friends because of what we can do for someone?  I've battled this my entire adult life, feeling like I've been used for services for others and this wasn't gonna be another one.

Once Ryan turned 18 he decided he wasn't going back because he had seen enough rudeness in texts from Tony and Sumi.  If they were gonna be disrespectful to his family, he didn't want to support it.  I had been shunned before by friends for leaving a church, this time it was too much to be treated like this again.  

As time went on I began to hunt through emails and facebook messages that had been sent to me.  I had gotten prophesies sent to me from people I didn't even know.  I looked CLOSER and noticed that much of it was a focus on me.  ME, ME, ME.  How much God was gonna use me.  I would become famous, well known, newspaper material.  Basically PRIDE.  Who is the king of pride?  Who is the prince of lies?  Satan.  He appeals to our ego, our flesh. Most of the prophesies coming at me were feeding my ego.  I accepted that prophesy and opened myself up to demonic forces.  This could explain what happened to House Fire Ministries when Sumi accepted the prophesy about God using House Fire to usher in the bride of Christ.  That was an obvious false prophesy that needed to be judged and it wasn't.  Was this why my family felt no presence of God even felt an evil presence?  Was this why it fell so flat?  Some questions are still not answered but many were with scriptures. When I would ask Sumi a question and ask her for scripture she would reply "don't put God in a box."

I remember walking back into my church in Chandler after this experience and just feeling such a clean feeling. It was such a relief that we hadn't left.  I wanted to run up and give my pastor a big hug for sticking to scripture and not being led by emotion or fame.  It felt so clean in the worship, in the preaching, and I felt God's presence.  I was no longer deceived and I saw clearly.  I felt like we were saved just in time from falling into a huge trap of deception.

However, once we fall into deception, it's a battle getting out.  There is just so much to the story that I'll have to tell in pieces.  Chaz kept declining and declining.  In fact, he's still paying the price and that'll be a separate blog story. I would also like to touch on Nathan Morris and Fresh Start Church and that experience.

To keep it simple I will quote what my pastor always says.  PRAY FIRST.  Don't do what we did and move without clearly knowing it's of God.  If we had taken his advice we wouldn't be paying the price now.  I DID NOT write this to trash talk anyone.  In fact, we left back in April and it's now Almost September.  We waited and waited but I feel like I need to warn others.  I don't feel it's too late for anyone and they still have a chance to turn things around.  WE ALL DO.  I am super grateful Sumi reached out to me and I miss the little bit of friendship that we had. It was sad that beliefs can tear apart friends.  I originally was NEVER going to say a word but because the disrespect continues, now I know I need to share.  No one should be treated bad for leaving a church.  I've gone through this too many times.  Animosity or shunning people never make people want to come back.  Anyway, this is my experience and I hope to save someone else from falling into any form of NAR movement.  Not fun and we've paid heavily.

This is not meant to be a personal attack against them because all in all, I know this all began out of a heart to want to minister. However, anyone of us can fall into deception quickly if we don't have discernment or we rush things.  I learned a very, very hard lesson.

PRAY FIRST