Sunday, August 18, 2019

My Uneasy Experience at House Fire Ministries- Part 1

I think it's time to tell a story and it may be a long one.  However, if I stay silent then I know there is a chance that others could fall into the same trap.

Late last year a friend invited us to her bible study at her house.  I didn't have work so I figured I'd give it a chance.  I brought my son Chaz along with me because he loves bible studies.  It was a 45 minute drive from our house.  When we got there they were very welcoming and it was a nice environment.  Mostly my friend would do the study or her and her husband would take turns.  We spent a long time in worship which was nice.  It did drag out for a bit and it tended to be the same songs often.  It was still pretty relaxing.

Usually Sumi was the one to do the bible studies and every now and then her husband would do one. I thought they were insightful and I was often tired when I went and didn't really test what they were saying to scripture.  in fact, I had spent most my life just trusting what people told me and wouldn't read things in context.  I did notice that they put a lot of emphasis on hearing from God and what God told them to say. It automatically made me tune into Sumi more because, how cool is that?  Hearing God's direct voice or having a "word or phrase dropped in",  as she would often say.

After the long praise and worship, short bible study, the majority of the time was spent on prayer afterward and giving everyone a word from God.  If you were new you were sure to get one. Often, they would call one of us to the middle and wait for God to speak to them directly about us.  Almost like a Psychic would, in a sense.  I don't at all want to say any of it was false.  In fact, some things were right on the money.  That's what immediately drew me in to future meetings.  It wasn't the songs and not the teaching.  I only half paid attention.  It was the personal experience at the end, which oftentimes drug out very, very, very long.

I very quickly brought the rest of my family and they liked it.  In fact, I think it really bolstered our faith and how much God listens to us.  Sumi and Tony were very welcoming and I truly began to build a friendship with them.  I loved how they really believed in our teens.  As the months went on we started inviting our friends and they came.  We didn't really see much out of the ordinary.  I really loved the bible study atmosphere as we already had a church we loved for the last 6 years.

A few months goes by and Sumi tells us her and her husband are praying for a bigger building.  I thought, well, awesome.  A bigger building for a bible study.  Sounds great.  One day that day came.  It wasn't anything secured for the future but one of those things where they can borrow a building once a week on Friday nights.  I thought it was cool and looked forward to help grow this bible study.

This is where things changed fast.  

One day Tony and Sumi sit us down and tell us they'd like us to help build their new church.  This wasn't going to be a bible study anymore.  It was going to be their church.  The only problem with it is it was a borrowed building and..... eventually it'd switch to Sundays.  Gulp.  I don't know.  With the excitement of helping to start something new, without any prayer at all our family said yes.  We met them at a McDonalds and all decided our roles. I loved being a photographer and loved taking photos and making videos from them. Finally, for once, I wasn't only thought of to watch kids in nursery. That's pretty much all I did since I was 20 years old.  I was excited to catch a break.  I was already watching children some Sundays in my current church.  During the meeting Sumi and Tony asked me to be the children's director and someone else was gonna take the photographer position.  Okay, I wanted to be a servant and so maybe it was meant for me to always serve with kids.  I tried to swallow my sadness and just go with it.  After all, if this is of God, maybe I just need to follow and fulfill that position without complaint.  And I did.  In reality, we're servants of Christ, I didn't want to be selfish.

My family and I were excited to start a new adventure and we knew within a few months we'd be leaving our church of 6 years. We LOVED our church and they've really invested so much into our kids.  We give a lot of credit to them for helping our kids through some really difficult times spiritually.  We dreadfully told a couple of members including our pastor that we'd eventually be leaving. I just tried to push it into the back of my mind along with the guilt that I hadn't talked with my pastor first.  I DON'T believe we have to get permission from a pastor to do anything.  He's there as a shepherd of the flock.  Not a lord over the flock.  But I know they have seen a lot and wisdom comes along with it.  For some reason I had a feeling deep down that we were being very unwise and rushing into decisions without first giving lot of prayer.

Note: The pictures on the mobile version of my blog are blurry but you can click on them to see more clear.


Towards the end of the bible studies Tony and Sumi invited us to attend a revival with Nathan Morris at Fresh Start Church in Peoria.  It was very strange and definitely for a later post with lots of scripture and explaining.  The songs were rocking and very much like a very loud concert.  It was actually very much to my liking, if I were at a concert.  After the sermon, which I didn't really learn anything, just mostly heard about his experiences, Nathan Morris did an impartation.  I had NEVER heard of this but Sumi said it was awesome.  Gullibly, I got in the very long line and went through it to have Nathan Morris "impart" his spirit or God's spirit onto me.  Not sure exactly what he was trying to do.  He didn't say anything.  He just laid his hands on people or blew on them and they all fell down.  95% of the people fell.  Not me, thank goodness.  But I felt a little heart flip, that's it.  No one in my family fell except for two.  We are a large family so thank goodness we were the 5% that didn't fall.

After we left my son Chaz was in the van and started exclaiming that he could form a fireball in his hands.  He would actually feel it and touch people with it. My daughter felt it and freaked out excitedly.  We were amazed at this new ability he had without even questioning.  My son Chaz has a very tender heart for God and could oftentimes speak into people's lives.  We thought it was pretty neat and went 3 times.  The whole revival weekend.  


Nathan Morris will hold people and push on the "bad area" that needed healing


I have to admit that after experience a room full of people at House Fires who could supposedly prophesy and read people, and now this impartation, my church was feeling a tad boring to me.  My whole family felt that way actually.  As time went on Chaz was beginning to feel things.

Impartation Revivals are spreading
By now the bible study was now moving into the building that was being borrowed from another business.  We began to show up with things here and there and offer our help.  We were getting closer and closer to the deadline of the grand opening.  I am an observer and listen to people carefully.  One thing that really stood out to my husband and I was the complaining about the building and nursery not being built fast enough. I thought that was a bit odd being they were there rent free, in fact, the owner paid their fees to incorporate their name House Fire Ministries.  I was happy to just be there and excited for what God was going to do in this new found church on Fridays.

I was getting a bit nervous about the nursery because although they were getting donations coming in, I didn't have what I needed for the nursery.  I had to care for infant through 12 years old.  That's a wide range of kids with nothing to do and their services went LONG.  We had to use a large room that was very hot and had a huge echo.  Although I heard more complaints from others, again I didn't care because it was a free facility.  Because the deadline was getting so close I began to buy things I needed.  I had been doing nursery for 20 years and knew exactly what was needed.  Thankfully, while I was buying stuff, people started to donate.  When Sumi asked what I needed, often she would look surprised when I gave her the list.  Which is okay, she probably had a TON of stuff on her plate.  I knew that I wasn't there just to babysit and needed to actually teach a lesson.  Because the date was getting closer and closer I ended up just spending $700 of my own money to make sure we could have lessons and plenty of stuff to do for all ages.  Sumi at one time suggested that I pretty much needed snacks and they'd be good.  Hahahahahahahaha....no way.  Thankfully, she eventually bought a changing table and a rug.  I brought the fun.

Thankfully, because I have so many teens I knew I would implement their help because I don't automatically trust just anyone to watch people's kids.  Including mine.  The church eventually had it's grand opening and I had hoped people enjoyed it because I knew I wouldn't be seeing a service for a very long time.  We had a guest speaker Dennis Reanier.  It was for 2 nights.  The first couple nights for me was as disaster.  The room had such a bad echo the kids couldn't hear their lessons and a lot of the new kids were very naughty.  That's okay. But I was exhausted after day one.  I had to do another.  By the second one I was a tad discouraged.  I wondered if I'd eventually get a break after so many Fridays.  Sumi soon texted me a number of a lady that wanted to do nursery.  I texted back, that's great!  I asked how long she's known her.  "What do you mean?  I just met her tonight." Um, no.  I'm not gonna have her watch all these kids when we know nothing about her.  I saved the number for a future date and got a few more like that.  I figured I'd watch them over time, build a casual friendship, and see if I would trust them a bit.  After all, parents are looking to me to protect their kids.  

I didn't feel this way when the church was a bible study in San tan valley, but once it became a "church" in Tempe, I began to feel an unrest in my spirit. I didn't feel the same excitement, the same gratefulness, and I didn't feel His presence.  In fact, it fell flat every Friday.  I would even watch people walk out, shake their heads, and say, "I thought I was gonna hear from God."  I don't know why or what changed once it moved buildings but I had my thoughts on it.  Sometimes we get so excited to be used by God we jump the gun and move ahead of Him.  Just because an offer comes doesn't mean it's God's will.  I also began to notice subtle character issues.  Because the owner had to put the expensive lounge chairs up, at the end of the night we had to put them back down for him.  One night as we were helping to clean up Sumi said, "I don't think we should have to put these chairs down.  I mean, Jeremy doesn't put them up for us for our services." I stared at her blankly and got quiet, wondering if I heard that right. Of course we should put them back down.  Jeremy was letting us use the place for free.  As a gift. We should do everything in our power to put everything back the way it was.  in fact, I made sure to clean my nursery area and sanitize everything every time.  Jeremy needed that area for his client's kids to play.

One Friday (beginning of April 2019) I was just really feeling something was off in the building and walked outside.  To my surprise Chaz was in the parking lot.  He was feeling the same way so he left.  But he had a strange look on his face and I made a note to ask him later what happened.  Chaz told me that he also felt in his spirit that something was off so he went outside.  He asked God to open his eyes to see what he had gotten involved him.  He turned to look at the building and saw a huge demon hovering over the building.  It shocked him to the core and he was full of fear.  This was the look I saw.  I thought Chaz was okay but this is when his horror began. In fact, a friend who also attends (and still does) said she felt some things off too in the service that night. 

Once Chaz went home he was now seeing demons in his room and could explain them in detail.  Not only that, he began to hear voices.  Instead of only hearing from God like he used to, he was now hearing other stuff that was completely off and he began to get very confused.  In fact, that confusion didn't began till we began the bible study and he was prayed for.  The seeing demons was completely new.  I asked God to show me what we opened ourselves up to and HE DID.  It was like the blinders came off and it explained everything. A lot of the preachers that were invited as guest were a part of the new Apostolic Reformation movement. I began to do some major digging.  Sumi told me she once was a part of a church which I noticed offers prophesy schools. Okay, so I dug some more.  What are prophesy schools? People think that prophets can be cranked out just like that? What?  Do prophets still exists?  Yes but......According to some churches, anyone can be a prophet, and at the end of their training, they can have impartations done from leaders above them.


My fear regarding this current hunger for phenomena is summed up by the apostle Paul’s words found in 2 Corinthians 11.3: “I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.”


Gifts for Sale!

I noticed Sumi using a lot of words like "activate, birthing" that are a classic NAR (New Apostolic Reformation) type of talking.  When I told Sumi that Chaz was really starting to step out she said yes, because we activated his ministry when we prayed for him.  Not really. Chaz had always been able to speak to people to the heart with knowledge from God.  Not until the bible study did he start to seem confused.  Especially since the Nathan Morris impartation.  The more I studied I began to notice how many women at the church were able to prophesy and would sometimes say really odd things, almost like they'd get their own thoughts confused with thoughts from God.  I did some study work and read that this is a common practice in prophesy schools.  Our thoughts are often God thoughts and they'd teach how to tune in.  I mean, it can be cool, but a school that cranks out prophets?  It seems a tad odd.

Click on pic to see what NAR Bethal Church offers. New Age practices

I also began to notice people saying strange things like how they saw angels in the church.  In fact, Sumi said that someone prophesied to her that God was going to use House Fire to usher in the bride of Christ.  What?  That doesn't make any sense since all Christians are the bride of Christ.  I'll let you read for yourself.  Which, by the way, seeing angels is also a common thing in NAR churches.  There are lots of emphasis on signs and wonders, self promotion, and less and less on Jesus.  I began to see this and felt SO CHECKED in my spirit that I decided to take a break.  I was hurt and confused.  Why was our family really starting to struggle mentally, physically, spiritually?  I was told it was because we were up against a big enemy.  Or were we?  This is why I needed a break and informed Tony and Sumi I needed a short break to clear my head.  I didn't care that I was walking away from the children's ministry.  That's great I had my own ministry and all, but my family comes first.  

Here is the prophesy a man gave that really sent me red flags I needed to get out:

"Hi Sumi! What I saw was angels appear on each side of the church as I was facing the stage we were all praying in the spirit in speech and song. There was thread coming from the Throneroom and the angels pulled on the thread and began creating a bridal train. It kept coming and coming from the throne I heard the Lord say "NEVER ENDING BRIDAL TRAIN." (the bride is eternal) it was beautiful they kept pulling and pulling. Then I saw a bride in the middle isle she was like 20 ft tall she stood strong and ready. The Lord began to show me her veil, it was adorned with diamonds, ruby, sapphire, even pearls. There was gold thread intertwined into the lace and the veil was split down the middle I saw both her eyes looking forward directly at the Lord. He said to me "MY BRIDE CAN SEE ME" Because the veil has been torn. He said to me "I THE LORD WAS TORN SO MY BRIDE COULD SEE ME" the Lord continued to say "MY BRIDE IS HERE! HERE IN THIS PLACE." What I knew was God was preparing the body of Christ Here in this place to be the spotless bride. The bride who is mature and ready. I KNEW HE HAS ANOINTED HOUSE FIRE MINISTRIES TO BE THE PLATFORM FOR THIS God bless you all. Holy Spirit is all over me right now again as I wrote this out. Double portion I say. In the love of Christ, Alistair"


Very quickly I got a bad feeling from Tony and Sumi and decided to just talk to them in person.  My son Ryan was still going.  By the time I had decided to talk to them I had done hours upon hours upon hours, and days of study work.  I was SURE that I had walked into something that was not of God.  But what happened at the bible study?  Was that bad too?  To this day I have no idea.  I felt so different when it was there.  I don't know if it's just that they were so eager to have their own church they rushed into things, invited NAR preachers unknowingly, or if I was just blind from the beginning.  To be honest, that is between them and God.

What I'd see whenever I asked questions
I do know that the night I went to pick up my son and decided to take that chance to talk to them, it did not go well.  They were instantly fired up and very, very defensive.  They couldn't bring any bible scriptures to mind except for two that was wildly misquoted.  One was "Touch not God's anointed" and the other was way, way out of context.  So we were never going to be allowed to question anything?  Uh oh, what had I gotten involved in?  Sumi considered herself a pastor (which isn't biblical) and we weren't allowed to ask questions or disagree.  That sent a red flag.  Sumi also said I had been talking trash.  Um, who?  I had 2 close friends I went to for help because I was confused.  I certainly hadn't spread anything because I had planned on going back up until that day!  The animosity was so obvious and I haven't even left yet.  They couldn't give me any scriptures for some of their beliefs that weren't biblical and the little bit that Tony gave me was confusing.  Like the sermons, he'd go in circles around you and you'd leave feeling confused.  After this adventure I have become a firm believer that pastors should hold some form of pastoral degree.  I was tired of hearing scriptures misquoted and taken out of context in order to be used for just anything.  I cannot trust my family in the care of a man (or woman) that doesn't understand the importance of keeping scriptures in context.  Especially if you're only able to quote bits and pieces for personal gain. 


Ryan at bible study before the building
I had planned on allowing Ryan to keep going but because I was treated so poorly in the parking lot for just needing a break, I quickly let Ryan know he will not be allowed to go till he is 18. He was used heavily for set up and tear down.  He ran a lot of things there.  He felt SO BAD walking away from them.  He loved feeling needed and I knew that's what Ryan loved the most, along with his relationship with them.  Ryan keeps his promises and he's dedicated.  It killed him to leave Tony hanging.  Time went on and Ryan began to notice they stopped writing him or asking how he's doing.  When I asked if he was gonna go back when he's 18, he said probably not for that reason.  Was he loved for the work he gave?  Also, he saw that just because I didn't want to attend there, I was pretty much dropped as a friend.  I wouldn't say shunned because they stayed my facebook friend, but it was like I didn't matter anymore.  I had heard the same from others.  Do we love people only if they agree with us?  Can't Christians disagree and still be friends?  Or are we friends because of what we can do for someone?  I've battled this my entire adult life, feeling like I've been used for services for others and this wasn't gonna be another one.

Once Ryan turned 18 he decided he wasn't going back because he had seen enough rudeness in texts from Tony and Sumi.  If they were gonna be disrespectful to his family, he didn't want to support it.  I had been shunned before by friends for leaving a church, this time it was too much to be treated like this again.  

As time went on I began to hunt through emails and facebook messages that had been sent to me.  I had gotten prophesies sent to me from people I didn't even know.  I looked CLOSER and noticed that much of it was a focus on me.  ME, ME, ME.  How much God was gonna use me.  I would become famous, well known, newspaper material.  Basically PRIDE.  Who is the king of pride?  Who is the prince of lies?  Satan.  He appeals to our ego, our flesh. Most of the prophesies coming at me were feeding my ego.  I accepted that prophesy and opened myself up to demonic forces.  This could explain what happened to House Fire Ministries when Sumi accepted the prophesy about God using House Fire to usher in the bride of Christ.  That was an obvious false prophesy that needed to be judged and it wasn't.  Was this why my family felt no presence of God even felt an evil presence?  Was this why it fell so flat?  Some questions are still not answered but many were with scriptures. When I would ask Sumi a question and ask her for scripture she would reply "don't put God in a box."



I remember walking back into my church in Chandler after this experience and just feeling such a clean feeling. It was such a relief that we hadn't left.  I wanted to run up and give my pastor a big hug for sticking to scripture and not being led by emotion or fame.  Don't worry, I didn't hug him.  It felt so clean in the worship, in the preaching, and I felt God's presence.  I was no longer deceived and I saw clearly.  I felt like we were saved just in time from falling into a huge trap of deception.

However, once we fall into deception, it's a battle getting out.  There is just so much to the story that I'll have to tell in pieces.  Chaz kept declining and declining.  In fact, he's still paying the price and that'll be a separate blog story. I would also like to touch on Nathan Morris and Fresh Start Church and that experience.

To keep it simple I will quote what my pastor always says.  PRAY FIRST.  Don't do what we did and move without clearly knowing it's of God.  If we had taken his advice we wouldn't be paying the price now.  I DID NOT write this to trash talk anyone.  In fact, we left back in April and it's now Almost September.  We waited and waited but I feel like I need to warn others.  I don't feel it's too late for anyone and they still have a chance to turn things around.  WE ALL DO.  I am super grateful Sumi reached out to me and I miss the little bit of friendship that we had. It was sad that beliefs can tear apart friends.  I originally was NEVER going to say a word but because the disrespect continues, now I know I need to share.  No one should be treated bad for leaving a church.  I've gone through this too many times.  Animosity or shunning people never make people want to come back.  Anyway, this is my experience and I hope to save someone else from falling into any form of NAR movement.  Not fun and we've paid heavily.



This is not meant to be a personal attack against them because all in all, I know this all began out of a heart to want to minister. However, anyone of us can fall into deception quickly if we don't have discernment or we rush things.  I learned a very, very hard lesson.

PRAY FIRST

10 comments:

  1. One of the experiences of what NAR teaching can lead into. Prophetic schools that continue to "pump out prophets" are a very concerning topic. Because all too often the spirits are not being tested. It's purely based on experience, or encounter, over biblically sound doctrine. If the teaching does not line up with scripture, I caution you to proceed only how the Lord makes it clear to do so. Do not go off of what man or woman says. For all will fall short of the glory of God, outside of His will. That is why we must return to Him about everything. Thank you Virginia for telling your story. I pray it helps many people, to see the truth.

    The gift of prophesy from the Lord is biblical. However it is not to be given on a whim. Nor given based on emotions, or opinions of man or woman. It is to be entered into with a reverence towards God, not in half hazardous manner. For we are held accountable for everything we speak out. Especially the things that we attach the Lord's name to, in saying that "He said" the word that is being given. This is not something to take lightly, but must be entered into via prayer and submission. Ultimate surrender must occur, before hearing from the Lord. It's not about a "feel good" tendacy, or a way of "tickling ears". For if the fruit that is produced from the word, is Pride...where is the spirit of the Lord in the midst of it all?...

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  2. Thank you for speaking out about this experience. It's not an easy task to do so. Praying for you and your family. Blessings

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  3. Much needed. Thank you for sharing!

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  4. Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

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  5. I hope your son is recovering well. We are in NZ and have come out of similar experiences. Its so hard to find a church in our town that is rightly handling the word of God. My wife started throwing fireballs and has also been very sensitive to God. We are so grateful to be free but still unlearning and trying to find fellowship for our family.

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  6. Father God protect this sister a d her family and heal and deliver her son from the works of Satan for the reason the Son of God was made manifest was to destroy the works of the devil. May all vestiges of the false "impartation" and false teaching be wiped from their hearts, mind and lives completely. May they continue to walk in the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ in its fullness all for Your neverending glory in the name of Christ Jesus Amen.

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  7. Greetings in Jesus to you & thank you for giving us a glimpse of the nuances and metamorphosis that stage up otherwise honest God-honoring people for the subtleties of spiritual abuse and cult-like practice that appears to be so rampant in NAR circles. Know that I, a total stranger to your family but brother in Christ, will continue praying for you as God restores you all completely. And He will do it! Jude1:17-21

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If you are feeling frustrated and want to leave an angry comment, please go scream in a pillow first, come back, and comment sensibly. :)

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